Judo Vs Karate

Which would you say is the best art for fighting ability.

If you put a judo blackbelt and a shotokan karate blackbelt, both the same weight and both first dans, against each other in a fight, who would win?

None of this "the best fighter would" crap. Lets assume the are both of an intermediate skill level in their own arts and don't have any knowledge of any other art.

Judoka wins.

Ask a stupid question, get a stupid reply.

It seems that every so often someone asks a question like this.
I'll always tell them that it is not the style but how much one trains which makes the difference in the fight.
Who agrees?

Oh dear, not ANOTHER tedious "which style is best" thread! Threads like this have been done to death. Give it a rest!!

I wonder how many of these we had. Does anyone remember the topic about mike tyson vs the karate kid. this has the potential to be like that.

OSU!

The All Karate Forum Philosophy On Fighting

That's a cool picture but I don't get what it has to do with this.
If you say we are dodging the question that is because your question is ballox.
However, I would think that if the fight finised standing the karate-ka would probably win but if it finised on the ground the judo-ka would probalbly win.

I say this because both have a lack in either on the ground or standing up.


Still you can't judge who will win. May I ask why you ask a question like this?


OSU!

Yeah. And it's a juvenile question as well, like the lion or tiger question that children love to ponder. Besides, I thought this question was already answered:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQ-0uUq3l0E

Hey, I'm a judo black belt who has gotten terrifically interested in Karate.
Judo is limited in that you really need at least two people of COMPARABLE SIZE AND ABILITY to make it work as useful training.
Karate relies on NO ONE but yourself for training. You also don't need a gym; don't need mats, and only about 9 by 12 feet or so of space in your home! When you do it with others, they don't have to be your size or skill. That's impressive and very clever stuff!

One thing that strikes me about Karate is how applicable the physical conditioning and deep stances of the katas are to judo. I have to wonder if the old school Karate guys in Japan did judo or sumo as part of the Karate.
Gosh, doing some standing grappling like judo or sumo in addition to the Kata training, and you'd be a killer! You'd be able to dominate the grip-fighting, stop people from taking you down, and striking them the whole time you're within grappling range with all the various gripping-striking combinations that many of the Kata moves are.

I've been using kata moves in my judo randori and THEY WORK!
Think of the basic punch-hikite. You use that to extract your arm from the opponent's grip. Zenkutsu-dachi is the main way to step in to attack with a throw. It is called a 'step-through' in wrestling.

If you look at the basic blocks, they are all also ways to tear grips off your arms. That is why you cross your arms most of the time. ALL of these are used in judo, unconsciously, as part of grip fighting. The low kicks also double as leg throws.
There must have been a strong standing grappling influence on Karate back in Okinawa or even further, back in China. Funakoshi identifies the grappling moves in his book, so I'm not making the grappling applications up.

Why are people so interested in these silly quesitons? Judo vs Karate... Kenpo vs Jujutsu... Kung Fu vs Muay Thai... the list goes on. My way of thinking, which some may agree or disagree is that it doesn't matter what martial art you do nor what martial art others do. As long as you are successful at your style, then for yourself you've won.

However, since people seem so keen to know who the better fighter is, not to do their training or anything like that as Koji112091 said, if the fight remained on the feet, karate has the advantage but if it goes towards grappling on the ground, judo wins.

Oh, fer cryin' out loud...

Oh, fer cryin' out loud...

Saying that judo must be done with same size and comparability doesn't quite sound correct. By that statement, it is bad for the judo sensei (not sure of the proper word for judo) to teach a newcomer to the bad comparison in ability. That means that not only can the instructor not teach the newcomer but senior students also cannot. This means, white belts teach white belts, black belts teach black belts. However, if nobody of the same ability may go together, it may be hard for anyone to learn. So NO!!!

Also, for karate you seem to be talking about only doing kihons in which case 9-12 feet is adequate. However, to train for karate, you need to do much MUCH more. Karate training is not only about doing 10 punches and call it a day. I don't think I have to explain that further.

Okay in that case. If you really insist on the answer.

The Judoka and karateka insist on a "best of 3" set up in order to insure that there is a clear winner and it cannot be down to luck. Rules are decided beforehand, in order to ensure the safety of the participants. The karateka is not allowed to poke the eyes, or strike the groin; the judoka is not allowed to use small joint manipulation. (The rules apply to both people obviously)

Day 1 - fight 1.

Oh no! The judoka has woken up with a terrible cold. He feels slow and sluggish. His head is aching and his eyes are streaming. The karateka on the other hand has slept like a baby and has woken up feeling revitalised and on top form.

The two meet for the fight and slowly eye themselves up across the deserted square. The creep across the ground, each wary of the other. The karateka tries a couple of tentative kicks to the judoka, mainly to judge distance more than anything else.

Suddenly the judoka closes down the distance, grabs the collar of the karateka, and prepares for a takedown. The karateka stands firm and starts pounding the floating ribs of the judoka, over and over again; relentless like a pneumatic drill. He then hits the head of the judoka, who sees stars. The judoka is weakening quickly. He feels like he can't go on.

Suddenly, the judoka lets out an enormous sneeze and the spittle goes flying into the karateka's face. This distracts the karateka so much that the judoka is able to apply his throw. From here he mounts the karateka and slowly chokes hime out.

Oooh match 1 - victory to the judoka.

Match 2 - day 2:

The two warriors go for it again. It all seems pretty well matched until the judoka falls down a small pot hole, allowing the karateka to apply a sweet shot to face, followed by a chop to the neck. It's one of those times when the strikes hit like textbook stuff and the judoka crumples to the ground.

Match 2 - victory to the karateka

Match 3 - day 3:

Both fighters are extremely tired now, but they know the pride of their art rests on this match.

They circle each other warily, looking for an opening. Suddenly out of the blue a car full of cops appears and arrests both fighters for fighting in public. Apparently some old lady complained to them about the noise scaring her little Chihuahua, Pootsie.

Match 3 - victory to the establishment.

So there you have it. Irrefutable proof that if a judoka and karateka fought it would be a tie, and ultimately only "the man" would win.

Why has the Karateka always got to be Shotokan.